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Thread: Washington state ferries and medical marijuana

  1. #1

    Washington state ferries and medical marijuana

    High NWGT!

    Was wondering if anyone has any information on Washington state ferries and mmj.

    I know they are state run and not federal.

    I have heard the dogs are trained to smell explosives and not drugs?

    Anyone have first hand experience riding the ferries with dry meds or clones?

  2. #2
    NWGT Garden Guru HeadGrow's Avatar
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    all is I know is that i've been on the ferry a bunch of times and had plenty of weed on me. I've never had an issue. I used to blaze in my car on the ferry too but you never know what asshole is working that day so I stopped doing that. I was more worried about riding the ferry with a box full of fireworks than i ever was with a box full of weed.

    I've heard the same thing about the dogs too. My buddy is miliary police and has been thru dog training school there. He said most of the time if the cop dog is a shepard then it's not a drug dog. The one time years ago I got pulled over and popped for weed, the patrol brought a drug dog out to my car for a search. That dog wasn't a Shepard either. I think most of the dogs at the ferry terminals are german shepards, though i'm not sure how much that really has to do with anything. It's all just hearsay on my part.

  3. #3
    NWGT Jr. Member dankska's Avatar
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    i rode the Bainbridge boat for 3 years and never had a problem. If the meds were dank i would sit outside. I was also walking on. The dogs are Explosive specific. this is from WSF

    All Vehicles Subject to Security Screening
    Washington State Patrol Officers, or teams of Officers accompanied by explosive-detection canines, will be present in the vehicle holding lanes. If the dog detects explosive materials, the vehicle will be subject to physical inspection and won’t be allowed to board the ferry until the situation is resolved. The dogs are trained to detect explosive materials only. WSF and WSP are implementing vehicle screening because it is mandated by the new security regulations, because it is a vital part of the WSF security plan approved by the Coast Guard, and because it is an appropriate and responsible security measure in light of WSF’s operations. Anyone denying the screening will be prohibited from boarding the ferry.

  4. #4
    Oh nice find danska!

    I looked all over the wsf page and couldn't find shit. Guess its too early for me. Lol

    Thanks for both your responses, makes me feel more at ease.

  5. #5
    NWGT Senior Member
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    First time i road the ferry i had 2ps and what was the first thing i saw when i looked in my rear view mirror a damn dog walking up the line sniffing every car that it went passed my heart started beating really fast i started sweating got hella sick feeling then they just walked right passed me never been so nervious in my life

  6. #6
    NWGT Senior Member Muttt's Avatar
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    For starters, the breed of dog has nothing to do with what the dog is capable of doing. Any dog can be trained for drugs or explosive detection. It's got to do with the capabilities of thier noses and has nothing to do with breed or type of fir. Most working dogs are Belgium Malinois, which look really similar to German Shepards. The reason they use that dog breed is because of it's temperment, body mass, muscle tone and other breed specific physical traits. These traits or chosen more for the attack capabilities than anything else. They want a dog breed that's hard to stop (by the bad guy). Most working dogs are dual trained .... which means they can detect (drugs or explosives, but never both) or be used as an attack dog. Some dogs are detection only dogs and some are attack only dogs. The requirement for the Ferries is for a explosive detection dog. Now, there is no way to be able to tell. So, if you see a dog at the ferry, it is more than likely a bomb dog. But, if they don't happen to have a bomb dog available, they could and probably do use a drug dog from time to time. Just to use as a deterent. Since, terrorists can't tell the difference (and neither can you). And, just seeing a dog being walked between cars might be enough of a deterent to make the bad guy go elsewhere. Hell, it might even be just an attack dog that isn't trained to detect anything. You'd never know. Some agencies use pot belly pigs because thier nose is like 20 times stronger than a dog. They can smell a truffle multiple feet underground. I've also seen where they use tiny little dogs like Chahuahuas because they can put them into tiny spaces (like air vents) to look for hidden drugs or explosives.


    Pot is legal. If you think about it, these agencies (non federal) in WA are going to have to phase out their drug dogs, since they are trained to detect several different drugs. There is no way to determine which drug the dog is detecting. The only way to figure out what drug they smell ... is for the officer to search for the physical package. So, if the officer uses this reaction from his dog to determine whether or not a crime has been committed. Then, uses tha probable cause for a search (without a search warrant). Then, the entire search is based on the dog detecting an ILLEGAL substance. But, since pot is now legal. No crime has been committed. So, if the dog is trained to detect marijuana, the dog is actually reacting to the smell of a legal substance. So, the dogs reaction is NOT evidence that a crime has been committed (if he is trained to smell marijuana). So .... wouldn't all the dogs that are trained to smell marijuana (in WA) need to be retired?? Once you train a dog to detect a drug, you can't un-train that dog. The only way to stop the dog from detecting marijuana, would be to NOT train the dog to look for it to begin with. So, in my opinion, all the non-federal drug dogs in WA would need to be replaced with new dogs (not trained in marijuana) to keep thier searches legal.

    But, I'm not a lawyer. So, I could be wrong. I'd really like to hear what some lawyers have to say about this.
    Muttt

  7. #7
    NWGT Garden Guru HeadGrow's Avatar
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    thanks for the info Mutt. i had no clue

  8. #8
    NWGT Senior Member SeaHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttt View Post
    Pot is legal. If you think about it, these agencies (non federal) in WA are going to have to phase out their drug dogs, since they are trained to detect several different drugs. There is no way to determine which drug the dog is detecting. The only way to figure out what drug they smell ... is for the officer to search for the physical package. So, if the officer uses this reaction from his dog to determine whether or not a crime has been committed. Then, uses tha probable cause for a search (without a search warrant). Then, the entire search is based on the dog detecting an ILLEGAL substance. But, since pot is now legal. No crime has been committed. So, if the dog is trained to detect marijuana, the dog is actually reacting to the smell of a legal substance. So, the dogs reaction is NOT evidence that a crime has been committed (if he is trained to smell marijuana). So .... wouldn't all the dogs that are trained to smell marijuana (in WA) need to be retired?? Once you train a dog to detect a drug, you can't un-train that dog. The only way to stop the dog from detecting marijuana, would be to NOT train the dog to look for it to begin with. So, in my opinion, all the non-federal drug dogs in WA would need to be replaced with new dogs (not trained in marijuana) to keep thier searches legal.

    But, I'm not a lawyer. So, I could be wrong. I'd really like to hear what some lawyers have to say about this.
    You point about drug dogs being trained to smell pot as well as other drugs is very rapidly becoming a concern for local law enforcement. Partly due to the humanity of what to do with hundreds of dogs the government can't use anymore and the money it will cost to train new ones.

    As long as the ferries don't make unscheduled stops, I have to question the coast guard (and customs for that matter)'s authority to search passengers. Do we have a history of people missing or appearing while the boat in en-route? Does it enter international waters? Is there something wrong with transporting explosives from Bremerton to Edmonds?

    If someone hijacked a plane and flew it into, say a huge building in NYC - it would cause quite the uproar. A disgruntled teen blowing his nuts off, or at worst sinking a few dozen cars is going to show up on JackAss, not the 11 o'clock news.

    Oh wait, that never happens anyway because we have dogs sniffing everyone's crotches, right?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Muttt View Post
    Most working dogs are Belgium Malinois, which look really similar to German Shepards. The reason they use that dog breed is because of it's temperment, body mass, muscle tone and other breed specific physical traits.
    Plus they're scary ass crotch biters that will bite without even barking or growling first.

  10. #10
    NWGT Senior Member galorando420's Avatar
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    Mallinois are 1500 dollar dogs, Id love to see pigs use them as cop dogs. Not to mention they arn't as sleek as california shephards which you can get for $100-200 from any breeder. My Shepheard, is bigger, more muscular,less narotic and has a harder bite then any mallinois I ever seen or been with. They are gorgeous though

  11. #11
    NWGT Senior Member Muttt's Avatar
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    Actaully .... that 1500 dollar dog costs somewhere between $25,000-50,000 to train (the ones for military and federal angencies do anyway .... not sure where the state actaully gets thiers). The have a dog training school run by civilians down in El Paso TX on Lackland Airforce Base.

    The Staters at the ferry landing are actually working for Homeland Security. It's a Federal requirement, kind of like the TSA. Once you are on the boat, the Captain is the law. Once you are in the water, you fall under the Coast Guard .... which is federal. If the dog at the ferry landing reacts to your vehicle, you can refuse. But, they won't let you on the ferry. And, they will keep fucking with you until they develop enough probable cause to search your vehicle anyway. They'll trump something up if they have too. Like saying "he was reaching under the seat and I thought he was hiding a weapon .... or reaching for one"


    Here's why this whole K-9 thing is a problem .... till they get it all worked out anyway. If I get pulled over and the cop smells pot and asks to search my vehicle, and I tell him NO. And, he pulls out his dog and walks it around my vehicle. That officer is trying to build enough probably cause to search my vehicle without a warrant. Or, he would have just searched it ... if he had enough probable cause. So, the dog decides to react to the joint I have in my glove box and sits and gives a positive reaction to the pot. But, we have no idea what drug the dog actaully smelled. There is no way to tell without an actual search. So, the officer cuffs me and puts me into the back of his car while he searches. While searching, he finds the joint. Which, is legal to possess. But, while in my car he sees the Queens crown jewels (which are stolen) under my seat. So, he seizes the jewels and arrests me for grand theft and puts me in jail.

    The problem here is that the officer doesn't have enough probable cause to search my vehicle. Probable cause means, "that which would cause a reasonable person to come to the conclusion that a "CRIME" has been committed or is about to be committed". But, pot is not a crime, the smell of pot is not a crime, possession of pot is not a crime. So, the dog reacting to marijuana DOES NOT give a reasonable person probable cause that a crime has been committed. So, the jewels which were not out in plain sight, were illegally obtained by the cop. And, the case against me would more than likely be dismissed because the evidence was illegally obtained.

    Now, I could quite possbly be wrong here. And .... probably am. But, that's what I would have my lawyer argue in court.
    Muttt

  12. #12
    NWGT Garden Guru Northgreens's Avatar
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    Good point Mutt, and yea, its all fucked, and up in the air atm..

    As for the ferries, your right, you can refuse the search and than they will fuck with you. I have traveled on our Washington state ferries with weed well over 50 times, and can tell you guys they arent looking for weed, if you are traveling to san juan islands however, you might risk it if getting on the same boat that goes to Sydney, BC. so be careful and pay attention to that one.

    There was a senior citizen that was arrested at a ferry landing back in 1999 and sued because she was found with a couple of grams, which was illegaly searched for at the landing just because the dog had detected drugs. So, the state decided that it was best to only have bomb dogs at the landings.

    Only exception, is for the ferries going through international waters.

    If your worried about it, have the passenger get out with the weed, or leave your car while with the weed until they are done bringing the dogs by your car. Than there is no chance.

  13. #13
    NWGT Garden Guru
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    I love those dogs, mine is nutty as fuck. He also loves mj and eats all my debris, stems etc, not on purpose. I hide them and bury them but he finds them. Australian cattle dog. Would kill for me

  14. #14
    NWGT Senior Member Muttt's Avatar
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    Unfortunately my dogs also like my MMJ. The first time they got into it, I set down my bowl by the back door to run inside. Came back out and it was empty. The little guys are Japanese Chins. One is 4 pounds 8 ounces and the other one is 14 pounds. On Sunday, I was cleaning out my ashtray (weed only) and set it down. I forgot it was sitting there and they licked all the ashes/unburned weed out of it. Needless to say. I was up all night baby sitting stoned dogs. Had to make sure they didn't drown in thier water dish or something. They were way stoned for about 18-20 hours. The don't handle it well at all. Wife is still WAAAAYYYYYY pissed off about it.
    Muttt

  15. #15
    NWGT Garden Guru
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    Weed isnt good for dogs, keep the ash trays hidden. My dog is 65 lbs and a mainaic, he catches birds in my trees. Totally vibes any mail person too. Even my roommate. I have him on a diet now because I need to take him to the local dog park to run. I am faced too lol.

  16. #16
    NWGT Senior Member
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    actually you CAN tell the difference between a drug dog and a bomb dog. A bomb dog must be VERY composed and calm. They will not be scratching or jumping. They will sniff around the object and if they smell what they are looking for they sit, the object is to get the dog to signal without having to touch the object (just in case).

    and as far as my experience goes I have never seen a detection dog at a ferry. I pretty much only use the vashon ferry though.

  17. #17
    I have not had any problems on the ferries. I always walked on when I had any significant amount on me.
    Check out The Vaporizer Blog for news and reviews!

  18. #18
    NWGT Garden Guru
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    I dab on the ferry everytime it says no smoking not no vaporizing

  19. #19
    one time I had over a lb of some super smelly ish in my trunk waiting for the ferry. the k9 must have passed me 8 times but the dog didn't do anything. i think the cop could smell it and that's why he kept passing me.

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