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Thread: Dimethylheptylpyran - a synthetic analog of THC that keeps you high for two days.

  1. #1
    NWGT Jr. Member Ender's Avatar
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    Dimethylheptylpyran - a synthetic analog of THC that keeps you high for two days.

    Never heard of this substance before, just happened to read about it this morning on reddit and thought I would share the link.

    Dimethylheptylpyran (1,2-dimethylheptyl-Δ3THC, DMHP, A-40824, EA-1476) is a synthetic analogue of THC, which was invented in 1949 during attempts to elucidate the structure of Δ9-THC, the active component of cannabis.[1] DMHP is a pale yellow, viscous oil which is insoluble in water, but dissolves in alcohol or non-polar solvents.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylheptylpyran
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    NWGT Jr. Member Asbeel's Avatar
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    DMHP is similar in structure to THC, differing only in the position of one double bond, and the replacement of the 3-pentyl chain with a 3-(1,2-dimethylheptyl) chain.[2]


    512px-Dimethylheptylpyran.svg.png
    DMHP

    620px-Tetrahydrocannabinol.svg.jpg
    THC

    And there lays the rub...




    • ^ Adams R, Harfenist M, Loewe S. New Analogs of Tetrahydrocannabinol. XIX. Journal of the American Chemical Society. 1949; 71(5):1624-1628.
    • ^ Razdan RK. The Total Synthesis of Cannabinoids. Wiley-Interscience 1980.


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  3. #3
    NWGT Jr. Member Ender's Avatar
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    at the risk of sounding like the unacknowledged layman that I am, can you explain the "Rub" as you understand it please?

    I see two different molecular structures (obviously) but are you able to explain what you see and what is bad about it?

    Thanks in advance.
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    NWGT Senior Member SeaHawk's Avatar
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    Like why "sucralose is just sugar" but makes my wife double over in pain, because, ya know it's psychosomatic when they tell you it's Splenda after you're writhing around.

  5. #5
    NWGT Jr. Member Asbeel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post

    I see two different molecular structures (obviously) but are you able to explain what you see and what is bad about it?
    Avoiding to much organic chemistry. THC is a a cyclic compound is a a series of atoms is connected to form a loop or ring as noted in the above post.

    Manipulation of these cyclic compounds are succeeded by so-called ring-closing reactions in which a cyclic compound is formed and ring-opening reactions in which rings are opened.
    320px-Dieckmann_Condensation_Scheme.png
    Analogous to tinker toys these manipulation of bonds seems to be simple, ..."just move one side of the ring to the other side..."; however manipulation of chemical bonds, especially outside of a dedicated organic-chemistry lab is TOTALLY dubious.

    Also, the data for such manipulation is spread across the 1940's through the present with ABSOLUTELY, I mean ABSOLUTELY, no cohesive adherence to the standardized chemical numbering system of the cyclic ring system in the research from Europe and America until after the 1970's sometime.

    Continuing, unfortunately, huge amount of Adams (the author most quoted) work in the 1940's was dis-proven by subsequent research in the 1960's and 70's.

    Regrettably, legitimate cannabis research is near unattainable for various reasons. I read a lot of wannabe chemists talking scat about what they will never understand. They consider the pushing and pulling of electrons (true organic chemistry) as simple as rearranging tinker toys with out ever having spent any REAL time in the classroom or laboratory .


    In all reality it is far easier to make Fentanyl with nightshade, diet pills and a few SUPER EASY to make precursors, than it is to find credible sources for "true and legitimate" cannabis alchemical research or manipulation.

    D. Gold's book Cannabis Alchemy tends to feed irrational thinking surrounding the manipulation of the THC, CBD, and, CBN molecules. In fact I would not be able to bake a cake if the directions for the confectionery were as ambiguous as the chemical processes outlined for ... any of his processes.

    Uncle Fester ( a chemist of God-like accomplishments ) has written extensively about manufacture of Meth and LSD to a huge success across a pretty lay audience but has never published on cannabis.

    Michael Stark wrote marijuana chemistry http://www.pothoo.com/marijuana-chem...ael-starks-pdf which is a better look at cannabis, but is still lame.

    Also, one question. I have a vial of yellowish/amber liquid (DMHP) that I declare has deliriously high levels of prolonged intoxication. Are you going to put this (completely unproven) compound on your flowers or add it into your dabathon-day?


    The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
    - Cornelius Tacitus (c. 116 A.D.)

  6. #6
    NWGT Jr. Member Ender's Avatar
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    Whoa, thank you for that detailed explaination. Thank you for knowing and sharing all that!!



    Quote Originally Posted by Asbeel View Post
    Also, one question. I have a vial of yellowish/amber liquid (DMHP) that I declare has deliriously high levels of prolonged intoxication. Are you going to put this (completely unproven) compound on your flowers or add it into your dabathon-day?
    I might be the wrong person to ask, I'm a psychonaut Phenethylamine fan and have tried all of the 2C series created by Alexander Shulgin......so I think that I would try dabbing this compound. It's not going to kill me and I'm always down for an adventure.

    .:)
    Bars cleared, cars beat, doctor of duct tape, tattoo coordinator and adviser, erotic dance instructor, sensitivity trainer, sex therapist, Marriage counselor, Georgia land baron, Psychic, financial counselor, female lingerie and underwear consultant with hands on experience and pot grower. How can i help you?

  7. #7
    NWGT Jr. Member Asbeel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'm a psychonaut Phenethylamine fan and have tried all of the 2C series created by Alexander Shulgin......so I think that I would try dabbing this compound. It's not going to kill me and I'm always down for an adventure.

    .:)


    Dr Shulgin's work is LEGEND and should be required reading!!

    PHIKAL: free PDF
    http://archive.org/details/PhenethylaminesIHaveKnownAndLoved



    THIKAL: free PDF
    http://www.imarksweb.org/book/tihkal+alexander+shulgin+pdf+download/


    The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
    - Cornelius Tacitus (c. 116 A.D.)

  8. #8
    NWGT Trustee grojak's Avatar
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    ^^^ Figured this guy would chime in with knowledge...
    I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave - Jimmy Cliff

  9. #9
    NWGT Jr. Member Ender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asbeel View Post
    Dr Shulgin's work is LEGEND and should be required reading!!
    I couldn't agree more. I have a hard copy of each.

    The first half of Pikal (Phenethylamines I have known and loved) is a compilation from both Shulgin and his wife Ann noting different experiences with different substances. The second half of the book is most certainly more to your caliber with the explained science.

    I took his testing report procedures to heart and use the same parameters of discovery in my own journey.

    Obviously 2Cb is common and most well know as a club drug. I have found the experience to be consistent and remarkably precise to the minute in regards to effect. It last EXACTLY 4 hours. Taken at 8:30 (for example) one can KNOW that they will return to baseline at exactly 12:30. It's uncanny.

    I also have some 2Ct, 2Ci, 2Ce and each of those have different effects and time frames. My biggest problem I guess is the commitment of doing it. Some of them have a 16 hour life and it's like dropping Acid, no reprieve.

    Luckily, although I am not a hippy myself, I live in a wonderful part of the country and such things are relatively easily found in the burner crowd.

    I never do such things in Public and in fact enjoy a nice spring/summer day out in the yard to enjoy nature and contemplate.

    The Triptamine family in general can be alot of fun and I have enjoyed the 5-MEO-DMT in particular.

    As a chemist, (or at least one who understands these substances), have you done more reading or experimenting with them?
    Bars cleared, cars beat, doctor of duct tape, tattoo coordinator and adviser, erotic dance instructor, sensitivity trainer, sex therapist, Marriage counselor, Georgia land baron, Psychic, financial counselor, female lingerie and underwear consultant with hands on experience and pot grower. How can i help you?

  10. #10
    NWGT Jr. Member Asbeel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    As a chemist, (or at least one who understands these substances), have you done more reading or experimenting with them?

    Oh yes

    I have done a huge amount of work on DMT extraction found in common reed grasses found in Washington and a couple of very, very promising species of plant indigenous to Illinois.

    I spent way to many years trying to cultivate Claviceps purpurea an ergot fungus that grows on the ears of rye and related cereal and forage plants in an effort to synthesize Ergotamine,a required precursor for lysergic acid diethylamide, but alas the genetics for the particular ergot are horridly hard to find, cultivate, and maintain in sterile technique.


    474px-Claviceps_purpurea.JPG
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claviceps_purpurea


    500px-Ergotamine-skeletal.svg.jpgErgotamine



    practicallsdmfg.jpg
    Uncle Festers practical LSD manufacture PDF:

    http://files.shroomery.org/cms/58411...ncleFester.pdf


    My copies of both PHIKAL and THIKAL are dog-eared and filled with reference notes...

    However, for those who are willing to delve into the science, The Simple Plant Isoquinolines, another Shulgin book, that is required reading for those who seek the wisdom of plants, this Is a priceless tome of information for the manipulation of precursors.



    416928VQH3L._SX220_.jpg

    Hard copy: http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Plant-I.../dp/0963009621

    PDF: http://fizamuvobu.webs.com/apps/blog...uinolines-epub



    Unfortunately the alphabets, LEO, DEA, BATF, DOJ, all love to get involved when any highly specific designer drug hit the streets.


    The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
    - Cornelius Tacitus (c. 116 A.D.)

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    NWGT Garden Guru
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    As a semi OG around here, I give you guys congrats and biggest award of "Weed Nerds" Keep up the great work!

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    NWGT Member Dirk's Avatar
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    I wonder how much information from the Edgewood Arsenal Experiments (project 112) has been declassified in regards to Dimethylheptylpyran? I don't really know why the government would declassify synthesis of DMHP, but I would think that there are some very detailed data on the drug in the government's possession.

  13. #13
    NWGT Contributor west420's Avatar
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    i did a coupple reed grass exteactions a few yrs back, sweet results, any idea what species are native to wa? im a big fan of local shamanic plants

  14. #14
    NWGT Jr. Member Ender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asbeel View Post
    Oh yes
    I have done a huge amount of work on DMT extraction found in common reed grasses found in Washington and a couple of very, very promising species of plant indigenous to Illinois.
    Once again, highly impressed with your knowledge, I feel I could learn alot from a good discussion with you.

    I do have a further question or two that a man of your experience might be able to answer.

    As a fan of Terrence McKenna and one who is definitely interested in making the acquaintance of the machine elves... :) ... I have a little collection of different DMT and would ask you a question about them.

    First let me say that over the years, proper imbibe has been difficult as I am not one for needles, and smoking it at the proper temperature in a proper fashion without burning it has been ...difficult.

    The invent of the Persei made everything alot easier, I am able to melt half a gram into a cartridge and sail away trouble free.

    For years I had gotten a dark sawdust type of DMT from my PDX burner friends. It was seemingly unrefined, very nasty tasting but had both a great visual as well as mental. The fractualization is really amazing, all I could ever say was "Wow".

    Then recently in the last two years, I had acquired a couple of different versions off the silk road. The first is a Crystaline off white powder that doesn't taste bad enough, has a very strong body high (which I do not like) and very little visuals. It seems to be very refined and I have been describing it as "too clean". I feel like they took the good stuff out.

    The second one I got recently was a lighter version of the old stuff I used to get that worked so well. This was much lighter in color and I judged it to be about half way between the old stuff and the newer stuff. Too much body and not enough cool (visual)

    My question to you, an extractor is this. Is the yellowish crystaline likely 5-MEO? and am I right in believing that different levels of refinement produce different results? Or would you guess I have just received three very different extracts of the same DMT?

    I realize that you really can't answer that question without seeing it and maybe trying it. Perhaps if you are open to it, we could get together sometime for review.

    I thought that maybe since you have extracted before you might be able to state with authority what I think is the case, that what I have are different levels of extract, or maybe even different sources.

    Thanks for sharing your experience. I have played less lately then in younger years past, but it is coming up on summer and I have a great backyard to watch the birds and the squirrels.
    Bars cleared, cars beat, doctor of duct tape, tattoo coordinator and adviser, erotic dance instructor, sensitivity trainer, sex therapist, Marriage counselor, Georgia land baron, Psychic, financial counselor, female lingerie and underwear consultant with hands on experience and pot grower. How can i help you?

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  17. #17
    NWGT Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Once again, highly impressed with your knowledge, I feel I could learn alot from a good discussion with you.

    I do have a further question or two that a man of your experience might be able to answer.

    As a fan of Terrence McKenna and one who is definitely interested in making the acquaintance of the machine elves... :) ... I have a little collection of different DMT and would ask you a question about them.

    First let me say that over the years, proper imbibe has been difficult as I am not one for needles, and smoking it at the proper temperature in a proper fashion without burning it has been ...difficult.

    The invent of the Persei made everything alot easier, I am able to melt half a gram into a cartridge and sail away trouble free.

    For years I had gotten a dark sawdust type of DMT from my PDX burner friends. It was seemingly unrefined, very nasty tasting but had both a great visual as well as mental. The fractualization is really amazing, all I could ever say was "Wow".

    Then recently in the last two years, I had acquired a couple of different versions off the silk road. The first is a Crystaline off white powder that doesn't taste bad enough, has a very strong body high (which I do not like) and very little visuals. It seems to be very refined and I have been describing it as "too clean". I feel like they took the good stuff out.

    The second one I got recently was a lighter version of the old stuff I used to get that worked so well. This was much lighter in color and I judged it to be about half way between the old stuff and the newer stuff. Too much body and not enough cool (visual)

    My question to you, an extractor is this. Is the yellowish crystaline likely 5-MEO? and am I right in believing that different levels of refinement produce different results? Or would you guess I have just received three very different extracts of the same DMT?

    I realize that you really can't answer that question without seeing it and maybe trying it. Perhaps if you are open to it, we could get together sometime for review.

    I thought that maybe since you have extracted before you might be able to state with authority what I think is the case, that what I have are different levels of extract, or maybe even different sources.

    Thanks for sharing your experience. I have played less lately then in younger years past, but it is coming up on summer and I have a great backyard to watch the birds and the squirrels.
    Looks like you need a little book called: Tryptamine Synthesis

  18. #18
    NWGT Member Dirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    First let me say that over the years, proper imbibe has been difficult as I am not one for needles, and smoking it at the proper temperature in a proper fashion without burning it has been ...difficult.
    Acquire a volcano with the cheese cloth insert, and the proper vaporization temperature. You will blast off hard (assuming it's DMT). I had tried to smoke it with various methods, sprinkling it on weed, crack pipe ect.. I'm not one for needles either.. If you haven't done it with a volcano though I highly recommend giving that way a go- you don't destroy any of the DMT.. The only trick is getting the whole bag down before you lose coherence. It's quite the experience though.

  19. #19
    NWGT Contributor Cannabus's Avatar
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    This is starting to remind me of bluelight........ Anyone a member of that back in the day?
    Om Namah Shivaya.

  20. #20
    NWGT Contributor Cannabus's Avatar
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    Nothing to be sorry about, it was actually a very nostalgic moment. :-)
    Om Namah Shivaya.

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