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Thread: Oil, Wax, Shatter Question ?

  1. #1

    Oil, Wax, Shatter Question ?

    Hey all
    Last edited by OrganicaGrower; 08-14-2014 at 04:53 PM.
    14 day flush, 7 day dry, 30 day cure. Puff Puff Pass...........

  2. #2
    i primarily make my oil from Blue Dream trim and lowers. I purge initially with no heat till the blob doesn't muffin up anymore. then i'll bump the heat up to 95 and then eventually to 115 when the oil seems to not purge as much. it use to be that i could only make sap/shatter. honestly, i'm not sure what the difference is. all of a sudden i did a run and got honeycomb, then subsequent runs were sap/shatter again. the one determining factor for some reason is freshness. even the best oil makers i know about in my area can't do as much with the end result if the material is older. as to why freshness is such a factor, i do not know, but it has been the only difference between all the runs i've done and which was recently confirmed by a veteran oil maker.

  3. #3
    NWGT Member Dirk's Avatar
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    Your final product has to do with how you handle it post-extraction. Though pre-extraction variables inevitably play a role in the consistency, but the major player is post production handling techniques. The different consistencies have to do with various chemical reactions happening (polymerizations, oxidations, epoxidations, & hydrations. If you scrounge around this site you should be able to figure out how to make the various forms.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisoldhouse View Post
    i primarily make my oil from Blue Dream trim and lowers. I purge initially with no heat till the blob doesn't muffin up anymore. then i'll bump the heat up to 95 and then eventually to 115 when the oil seems to not purge as much. it use to be that i could only make sap/shatter. honestly, i'm not sure what the difference is. all of a sudden i did a run and got honeycomb, then subsequent runs were sap/shatter again. the one determining factor for some reason is freshness. even the best oil makers i know about in my area can't do as much with the end result if the material is older. as to why freshness is such a factor, i do not know, but it has been the only difference between all the runs i've done and which was recently confirmed by a veteran oil maker.
    This is totally true, and the biggest factor I believe. Fresh product will make the best fresh product. End of story. People need to get over the hump that oil will magically turn shitty or unwanted weed into amazing BHO. Its TOTALLY what you put in what you get out.

    And on that point, I think alot of the ending consistensy has to do with when the plants are harvested. Such as if you harvest while the heads are still cloudy/clear, you will get a more yellow clear type of shatter. If you wait until they are completly milky or amber, you will get a darker, more amber oil. This affects terpene taste as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    Your final product has to do with how you handle it post-extraction. Though pre-extraction variables inevitably play a role in the consistency, but the major player is post production handling techniques. The different consistencies have to do with various chemical reactions happening (polymerizations, oxidations, epoxidations, & hydrations. If you scrounge around this site you should be able to figure out how to make the various forms.
    I would say a little more pre than post. The only post extraction techniques of keeping shatter is generally just to keep it in the freezer, or at least around room temp. I've found no matter what, even the best of the best shatteriest shatter will turn waxy/honeycombey if subjected to heat or a non humid environment.


    And to answer the original post, yes, I believe generally your first run product should be shattery at a low temp in less than a 8 hour vac. Any more than 8 hours and more than 115f~ it starts to wax up, simply because it's pulling excess moisture from the product.

    Is moisture bad? Not in my opinion. I prefer it. Adds to smokability and taste, plus its way easier to handle.

  5. #5
    i usually have to vac longer, but my patties are sometimes 60+g.

    here is one of the best sites in terms of technical info: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/

  6. #6

    Oil, Wax, Shatter Question ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zipdiesel View Post
    This is totally true, and the biggest factor I believe. Fresh product will make the best fresh product. End of story. People need to get over the hump that oil will magically turn shitty or unwanted weed into amazing BHO. Its TOTALLY what you put in what you get out.

    And on that point, I think alot of the ending consistensy has to do with when the plants are harvested. Such as if you harvest while the heads are still cloudy/clear, you will get a more yellow clear type of shatter. If you wait until they are completly milky or amber, you will get a darker, more amber oil. This affects terpene taste as well.



    I would say a little more pre than post. The only post extraction techniques of keeping shatter is generally just to keep it in the freezer, or at least around room temp. I've found no matter what, even the best of the best shatteriest shatter will turn waxy/honeycombey if subjected to heat or a non humid environment.


    And to answer the original post, yes, I believe generally your first run product should be shattery at a low temp in less than a 8 hour vac. Any more than 8 hours and more than 115f~ it starts to wax up, simply because it's pulling excess moisture from the product.

    Is moisture bad? Not in my opinion. I prefer it. Adds to smokability and taste, plus its way easier to handle.
    I agree with everything you said. Except that you can purge shatter for way longer than 8 hours before waxing. Considering not all trim will even wax or budder. But you don't need to. I do think 115-130f is acceptable temps.
    Last edited by sticks2walz; 06-19-2013 at 04:46 PM.
    Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as my eye can see.
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  7. #7

    Oil, Wax, Shatter Question ?

    Quote Originally Posted by thisoldhouse View Post
    i usually have to vac longer, but my patties are sometimes 60+g.

    here is one of the best sites in terms of technical info: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/
    60g patties can be done in 8-10 hours. If you purge at 30hg for 6 then turn down to 27-28hg for the last 2 with no heat. Then put back on heat at 30hg for 30min you shouldn't ever see anymore bubbles. But wax I totally agree. My 80-112g patties typically take 24hours
    Last edited by sticks2walz; 06-19-2013 at 04:49 PM.
    Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as my eye can see.
    Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    i'm not sure i agree with the 8-10 hours, but there are so many factor in terms of thickness, time of prior purge without heat, strain, etc. i am curious why you do the last two hours without heat and at a lower vac?

  9. #9
    Oh I don't do that. Lol I purge for 12 hours min. At the same heat but some will say if your purge to long at 30hg you will start pulling out terps, and at 27hg you don't. I stay at 120-130 on my skillet at 30hg. I do leave the pp running for the first and last hour seems to purge best that way. I was simply giving a diff technique idea for making shatter. The reason you take it off hear us to make it harder. It does seem to work
    Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as my eye can see.
    Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    could be older material. not sure heat caused it to be darker

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sticks2walz View Post
    Oh I don't do that. Lol I purge for 12 hours min. At the same heat but some will say if your purge to long at 30hg you will start pulling out terps, and at 27hg you don't. I stay at 120-130 on my skillet at 30hg. I do leave the pp running for the first and last hour seems to purge best that way. I was simply giving a diff technique idea for making shatter. The reason you take it off hear us to make it harder. It does seem to work
    Well heres the deal.. i use an across oven. And I dont do huge runs either (maybe like 20-35g yield, max)

    So far I have found around 8 hours at 120 ish seems to get me the best shatter type. Any longer and it starts to wax up on me is all.

    Elevation could have something to do with it as well
    ZIPDEEZ

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zipdiesel View Post
    Well heres the deal.. i use an across oven. And I dont do huge runs either (maybe like 20-35g yield, max)

    So far I have found around 8 hours at 120 ish seems to get me the best shatter type. Any longer and it starts to wax up on me is all.

    Elevation could have something to do with it as well
    How high up are u
    Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as my eye can see.
    Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
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    High as fuck my nigga!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sticks2walz View Post
    How high up are u
    840' not high im just saying that some other people who are in CO or NW that are higher up might see varying times in the vac
    ZIPDEEZ

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zipdiesel View Post
    840' not high im just saying that some other people who are in CO or NW that are higher up might see varying times in the vac
    I think it depends alot on other things. Like how you handle before vac. My shatter never waxes because of how I handle before vac. My wax always waxes within 1-3 hours because of how I handle before vac. My black widow is silly tho it waxes within 15 min. The only other real factor is freshness. I've gotten 2 strains ever not to wax. And they were both old as fuck. Like way over 6 months. Other than that every strain waxes that I've ran.
    Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as my eye can see.
    Thomas Jefferson

  16. #16
    NWGT Jr. Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sticks2walz View Post
    I think it depends alot on other things. Like how you handle before vac. My shatter never waxes because of how I handle before vac. My wax always waxes within 1-3 hours because of how I handle before vac. My black widow is silly tho it waxes within 15 min. The only other real factor is freshness. I've gotten 2 strains ever not to wax. And they were both old as fuck. Like way over 6 months. Other than that every strain waxes that I've ran.
    What do you do prior to vac that guarantees shatter?
    ZIPDEEZ

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicaGrower View Post
    Latest run, 24 hrs in the Vac at 80 degrees

    Attachment 29721
    looks tasty
    Thank You For Your Time:
    Greg

  18. #18
    NWGT Senior Member KushTrees's Avatar
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    that's a really nice color. I'm not an BHO nerd so I don't know much about it besides how to smoke it ;) I really like that color though.

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